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H.O. Ojewale

H.O. Ojewale

TRINITY (Mythical Or A Reality?) part 1

October 1, 2015
by hoojewale
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trinity-godhood2

TRINITY

Seated round a table, we were three ladies and three guys at a house warming party of a good friend. Discussions ranged from girls’ tittle-tattle, concessional parleys, blusters to articles of faith. “Can

you imagine some people believing in triune creators?” Kudirat asked. “Well anyone is entitled to his thoughts,” Fasusi opined. “Or her thoughts,” Lola made a case for the womenfolk. “How can’t myths thrive in the mental voyages embarked by humanity,” Kudirat pressed on. “What is wrong with the conceptualization of the Trinity?” I asked. “Yes, I’ve drawn you out of your shell, I thought you won’t say a thing this evening H.O…” K (is what we fondly call Kudirat) continued, “How do you justify what your Bible doesn’t have of the millions of words constituting it.” All eyes turned on H.O. to open up once again to accept a biblical challenge.

H.O.:      Yes, you’re right about the Bible in not having ‘Trinity’ as one of vocabularies that all together make up the Bible.

K:           Uh, huh! So, where did you pluck it, if not from the mythically induced imagination of mental perambulation? Another entry from a long, fairy-tale list.

H.O.:     The Bible is not a book you pick, read and expect an understanding from the grammar of the English version. You need to be able to read in between the lines of scripture. You know how that for anyone to understand any play of Shakespeare as you read from a page you’ll have to be checking from the next page, of the coded meanings of certain words? The concept of the Trinity is right there in the Bible, in fact, from the very first three verses of the Old Testament.

K:           Hun! H.O. I know you’ve told your first lie, today, just to patch up your ecclesiastic deficiency. You’re already getting me livid with anger!

H.O.:     “In the beginning, God created…” Genesis 1:1; verse two, “…And the Spirit of God moved…;” third verse, “And God said, let there be light.”

K:            Good, now let’s see how you are going to conjure out t-r-i-n-i-t-y from those verses. No wonder God got angry with you Christians that HE had to commission prophet Mohammed (s.a.w) to preach the lost truth of one Allah!

H.O.:     In the lingual Hebrew, ‘God,’ in verse one of Genesis chapter one, is Elohiym. K, it may interest  you to know that Elohiym is a Hebraic plural word.

K:            But…but we all know that Yoruba people address an elderly one as if talking to many people and…

H.O.:      Hold it, the Hebrews do not have such linguistic custom, go and check it out. That’s the argument of one Jehovah’s Witness woman too, when I pointed this out. So, the KJV literal rendition should be, “In the beginning the Gods created…” but the truth is that Hebrews have one God. Pantheism will be implied should plurality be scripted, hence, the singularity is the perfect translation. Verse two gives an intimation of the Spirit of God, and that is another Personage, a Divine Entity. When verse three speaks of light, is it that of the illuminant rays of the sun? No.

This light is another Personage which if you should read between the lines and further on in John 1:4, you will see Him as the Creator. This Light is Christ. Are the Three not complete?

K:            You’ve only succeeded in proving only two: Spirit and Christ. Where is the supposedly Father?

H.O.:      Verse three says, “And God said,” and here, the Father is the One who speaks on behalf of the Trinity in creationism.

Lola:       So anytime one sees ‘God’ in the Bible it means Elohiym, right, and does that mean the Hebrews do not have a singular word for God?

H.O.:      No. HE goes by many designations. You just have to study the Bible to know these things. The singular name for Elohiym is Elohha. Elohha appears fifty-six times in the Bible. Five times it is in connection with an idol and for the whole 51 times it designates Jehovah, the true God.

K:           This is interesting. You go to church only to worship three Gods. Do your Gods enjoy the          competition?

H.O.:      Your Islam teaches from Qur’an that jihad involvement earns Muslims aljana (heaven), where some will get as many as forty wives according to the number of non-Muslims they’re able to slaughter in jihads. Tell me, K, how many husbands will you have as your prize for successfully killing, all heathen, sixty thousand spectators in a stadium? Your Qur’an forbids you to be friends with a born again Christian like me. Qur’an 3:118, “O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if ye will understand.” Chapter 3 verse 195, “And their Lord hath heard them (and He saith): Lo! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. So those who fled and were driven forth from their homes and suffered damage for My cause, and fought and were slain, verily I shall remit their evil deeds from them and verily I shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow – A reward from Allah. And with Allah is the fairest of rewards.” The second chapter of Qur’an i.e. Al– Baqara verse 105, “Neither those who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture nor the idolaters love that there should be sent down unto you any good thing from your Lord. But Allah chooseth for His mercy whom He will, and Allah is of Infinite Bounty.” Do you know who the people of the Scripture are? Christians! Read also, the entire At–Tawba, i.e. the ninth chapter of the Qur’an.

K & Lola: That’s not true! (they cried in unison).

H.O.:      You attack the Christian Bible ignorantly, meanwhile your own sacred book you know nothing about. The Qur’an does not treat the sin question (and that should be worrisome, if you hunger for heaven). Read An-Nisa (4) verse 80, “Whoso obeyeth the messenger hath obeyed Allah, and whoso turneth away: We have not sent thee as a warder over them”. This is saying that Christians are disobedient to God. Go to the 88th verse, “What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road”. The God of the Bible never leads any astray. In the same 4th chapter of the 89th verse is this, “They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them”, where Allah, through Mohammed tells Muslims never to befriend Christians. The 91st verse is why a good Muslim will see Christians as those who should be wiped out, it reads, “Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant”.

The Bible (and only the Bible) treats the sin question and it is one of the reasons we have the Trinity. (to be continued)

Read the concluding Part Two here.

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hoojewale

My name is H.O. Ojewale. I was born in 17th March, 1955, in the then Gold Coast, now Ghana, Greater Accra. My parents are Nigerians. I am married with three wonderful children.

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  • December 30, 2016 at 7:39 am
    Immanuel Verbondskind

    When reading “reading in between the lines of scripture” you should not want to place human philosophies and human doctrines in it.

    God is a Spirit, so when in Genesis is written at one time God did this and at an other place the Spirit did this, it is not speaking about a second or third person in a trinity but about one and the same person who is not like a human being but is Spirit, not having bones with flesh around and blood in it. The bible tells us clearly that God is Spirit and it tells us also that it is an eternal Spirit, no man can see and live. In case Jesus would be God they could not have continued to live after they had seen him.

    When it is speaking about the spirit of the Spirit God it is talking about God His Power, His Thinking, His Handling, in the same way as when we talk about your or our spirit. Your spirit is not, like so many christians also wrongly believe a separate entity of your body. It is your breath or better the breath of God given in to you.

    Elohim being a plural word doe snot mean that person is plural. My father,mother, teachers, like the parliamentarians, ministers, kings and queens are like any important person using the plural form “we” when they adress an other person or people. It does not mean they are more than one personality. When the king say “We, King of Belgium” he is not part of a plurality. Moshe also considering the divine Creator as the Most High considered Him also to be so important to let Him speak in the plural form and to address Him in the plural form, which we still do today as well when speaking to a person in a higher position or when speaking to an unknown position. It would be very impolite to use the singular form to an older or unknown person. As such speaking to a more important, higher or unknown person we have to use the plural “You” and never may say “thou” to that person.

    In your writing you come to say “And God said,” and come to a conclusion which nowhere can be found in the Scriptures but is of human construction “here, the Father is the One who speaks on behalf of the Trinity in creationism.” It is like to go and prove theorem based on a false assumption. that is what you are doing and as such you may perhaps think you can proof that your person god is a trinity; But then you are not taking into account the things which are clearly said in scriptures which should enlighten you.

    “for everything written in the past was written to teach us, so that with the encouragement of the \@Tanakh\@ we might patiently hold on to our hope.” (Romans 15:4 CJB)

    “god is spirit; and worshippers must worship him spiritually and truly.”” (John 4:24 CJB)

    “yet for us there is one god, the father, from whom all things come and for whom we exist; and one lord, Yeshua the Messiah, through whom were created all things and through whom we have our being.” (1 Corinthians 8:6 CJB)

    ““\@sh’ma, Yisra’el!\@ \@ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad\@ ;” (Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB)

    “(83:19) let them know that you alone, whose name is \@ADONAI,\@ are the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18 CJB)

    ““stop holding onto me,” Yeshua said to her, “because I haven’t yet gone back to the father. but go to my brothers, and tell them that I am going back to my father and your father, to my god and your god.”” (John 20:17 CJB)

    “praised be god, father of our lord Yeshua the Messiah, who, in keeping with his great mercy, has caused us, through the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah from the dead, to be born again to a living hope,” (1 Peter 1:3 CJB)

    “at three, he uttered a loud cry, \@“Elohi! Elohi! L’mah sh’vaktani\@?”” (Mark 15:34 CJB)

    “this is the revelation which god gave to Yeshua the Messiah, so that he could show his servants what must happen very soon. he communicated it by sending his angel to his servant Yochanan,” (Revelation 1:1 CJB)

    “I will make him who wins the victory a pillar in the temple of my god, and he will never leave it. also I will write on him the name of my god and the name of my god’s city, the new Yerushalayim coming down out of heaven from my god, and my own new name.” (Revelation 3:12 CJB)

    “1 ¶ after Yeshua had said these things, he looked up toward heaven and said, “father, the time has come. glorify your son, so that the son may glorify you— 2 just as you gave him authority over all mankind, so that he might give eternal life to all those whom you have given him. 3 and eternal life is this: to know you, the one true god, and him whom you sent, Yeshua the Messiah.” (John 17:1-3 CJB)

    “Shim‘on Kefa answered, “you are the \@Mashiach,\@ the son of the living god.”” (Matthew 16:16 CJB)

    “1 ¶ six days later, Yeshua took Kefa, Ya‘akov and his brother Yochanan and led them up a high mountain privately. 2 as they watched, he began to change form-his face shone like the sun, and his clothing became as white as light. 3 then they looked and saw Moshe and Eliyahu speaking with him. 4 Kefa said to Yeshua, “it’s good that we’re here, lord. I’ll put up three shelters if you want – one for you, one for Moshe and one for Eliyahu.” 5 while he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them; and a voice from the cloud said, “this is my son, whom I love, with whom I am well pleased. listen to him!” 6 when the \@talmidim\@ heard this, they were so frightened that they fell face down on the ground. 7 but Yeshua came and touched them. “get up!” he said, “don’t be afraid.” 8 so they opened their eyes, looked up and saw only Yeshua by himself. 9 as they came down the mountain, Yeshua ordered them, “don’t tell anyone what you have seen until the son of man has been raised from the dead.” 10 the \@talmidim\@ asked him, “then why do the \@torah\@-teachers say that Eliyahu must come first?” 11 he answered, “on the one hand, Eliyahu is coming and will restore all things; 12 on the other hand, I tell you that Eliyahu has come already, and people did not recognize him but did whatever they pleased to him. in the same way, the son of man too is about to suffer at their hands.” 13 then the \@talmidim\@ understood that he was talking to them about Yochanan the Immerser. 14 ¶ as they came up to the crowd, a man approached Yeshua, kneeled down in front of him, 15 and said, “sir, have mercy on my son, because he is an epileptic and has such terrible fits that he often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your \@talmidim,\@ but they couldn’t heal him.” 17 Yeshua answered, “perverted people, without any trust! how long will I be with you? how long must I put up with you? bring him here to me!” 18 Yeshua rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, so that from that moment he was healed. 19 then the \@talmidim\@ went to him privately and said, “why couldn’t we drive it out?” 20 he said to them, “because you have such little trust! yes! I tell you that if you have trust as tiny as a mustard seed, you will be able to say to this mountain, ‘move from here to there!’ and it will move; indeed, nothing will be impossible for you!” 21 22 ¶ as they were going about together in the Galil, Yeshua said to them, “the son of man is about to be betrayed into the hands of people 23 who will put him to death, and on the third day he will be raised.” and they were filled with sadness. 24 ¶ when they came to K’far-Nachum, the collectors of the half-\@ shekel\@ came to Kefa and said, “doesn’t your rabbi pay the temple tax?” 25 “of course he does,” said Kefa. when he arrived home, Yeshua spoke first. “Shim‘on, what’s your opinion? the kings of the earth – from whom do they collect duties and taxes? from their sons or from others?” 26 “from others,” he answered. “then,” said Yeshua, “the sons are exempt. 27 but to avoid offending them – go to the lake, throw out a line, and take the first fish you catch. open its mouth, and you will find a \@shekel.\@ take it and give it to them for me and for you.”” (Matthew 17:1-27 CJB)

    “if someone acknowledges that Yeshua is the son of god, god remains united with him, and he with god.” (1 John 4:15 CJB)

    “but we do see Yeshua – who indeed was made for a little while lower than the angels – now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by god’s grace he might taste death for all humanity.” (Hebrews 2:9 CJB)

    “therefore, since the children share a common physical nature as human beings, he became like them and shared that same human nature; so that by his death he might render ineffective the one who had power over death (that is, the adversary)” (Hebrews 2:14 CJB)

    “this is why he had to become like his brothers in every respect – so that he might become a merciful and faithful \@cohen gadol\@ in the service of god, making a \@kapparah\@ for the sins of the people.” (Hebrews 2:17 CJB)

    “3 so it is with us-when we were “children” we were slaves to the elemental spirits of the universe; 4 but when the appointed time arrived, god sent forth his son. he was born from a woman, born into a culture in which legalistic perversion of the \@torah\@ was the norm, 5 so that he might redeem those in subjection to this legalism and thus enable us to be made god’s sons. 6 now because you are sons, god has sent forth into our hearts the spirit of his son, the spirit who cries out, “Abba!” (that is, “dear father!”). 7 so through god you are no longer a slave but a son, and if you are a son you are also an heir.” (Galatians 4:3-7 CJB)

    “30 the angel said to her, “don’t be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favor with god. 31 look! you will become pregnant, you will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua. 32 he will be great, he will be called son of \@Ha‘elyon.\@ \@ADONAI,\@ god, will give him the throne of his forefather David; 33 and he will rule the house of Ya‘akov forever—there will be no end to his kingdom.” 34 “how can this be,” asked Miryam of the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 the angel answered her, “the \@Ruach haKodesh\@ will come over you, the power of \@Ha‘elyon\@ will cover you. therefore the holy child born to you will be called the son of god.” (Luke 1:30-35 CJB)

    “21 ¶ while all the people were being immersed, Yeshua too was immersed. as he was praying, heaven was opened; 22 the \@Ruach haKodesh\@ came down on him in physical form like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “you are my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with you.” 23 Yeshua was about thirty years old when he began his public ministry. it was supposed that he was a son of Yosef who was of eli,” (Luke 3:21-23 CJB)

    “27 “what I am leaving with you is \@shalom\@ —I am giving you my \@shalom.\@ I don’t give the way the world gives. don’t let yourselves be upset or frightened. 28 ¶ you heard me tell you, ‘I am leaving, and I will come back to you.’ if you loved me, you would have been glad that I am going to the father; because the father is greater than I. 29 “also, I have said it to you now, before it happens; so that when it does happen, you will trust. 30 “I won’t be talking with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. he has no claim on me; 31 rather, this is happening so that the world may know that I love the father, and that I do as the father has commanded me. “get up! let’s get going!” (John 14:27-31 CJB)

    “17 ¶ but he answered them, “my father has been working until now, and I too am working.” 18 this answer made the Judeans all the more intent on killing him—not only was he breaking \@shabbat;\@ but also, by saying that god was his own father, he was claiming equality with god. 19 therefore, Yeshua said this to them: “yes, indeed! I tell you that the son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees the father doing; whatever the father does, the son does too. 20 for the father loves the son and shows him everything he does; and he will show him even greater things than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 just as the father raises the dead and makes them alive, so too the son makes alive anyone he wants. 22 the father does not judge anyone but has entrusted all judgment to the son, 23 so that all may honor the son as they honor the father. whoever fails to honor the son is not honoring the father who sent him. 24 yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the one who sent me has eternal life—that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life! 25 yes, indeed! I tell you that there is coming a time—in fact, it’s already here—when the dead will hear the voice of the son of god, and those who listen will come to life. 26 for just as the father has life in himself, so he has given the son life to have in himself. 27 also he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the son of man. 28 don’t be surprised at this; because the time is coming when all who are in the grave will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done good to a resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I can’t do a thing on my own. as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is right; because I don’t seek my own desire, but the desire of the one who sent me. 31 ¶ “if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not valid. 32 but there is someone else testifying on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he is making is valid— 33 you have sent to Yochanan, and he has testified to the truth. 34 not that I collect human testimony; rather, I say these things so that you might be saved. 35 he was a lamp burning and shining, and for a little while you were willing to bask in his light. 36 “but I have a testimony that is greater than Yochanan’s. for the things the father has given me to do, the very things I am doing now, testify on my behalf that the father has sent me.” (John 5:17-36 CJB)

    I hope you shall see and understand that Jesus, who was born (God is never born but always was) seen by many and who was tempted, whilst God cannot be tempted, really died (God cannot die and man can do Him nothing) and was resurrected or taken out of the dead after three days in hell (what would God have to look for in hell?) was first lower than angels though God has never been lower than angels. God was, is and always shall be the Most High.

    You also seem to miss the writing in Scripture that Jesus is the sent one from God and is called the “only begotten beloved son” of God by the Elohim Himself. You also seem to miss the fact that Jesus is called the mediator between God and man. In case He is God he can not mediate between Himself and man, or we would never call such a talk a mediation or interposition. When Jesus is God He always would do His own will when he would do the Will of God, though he clearly says he is not doing his own will.Jesus, at one point, is also asking why god has abandoned him; When he himself is God he cannot abandon himself and when he is then praying and asks others not to pray to him but to his heavenly Father, he is acting very schizophrenic and misleading the people. Also having come so late to this world and having us still to wait and suffer makes of your god a very cruel unloving god, because then he could have brought salvation straight away in the Garden of Eden.

    I am pleased that I do not have such a cruel God, but may look at a loving God of order who wants to give many people the opportunity to come to Him by His begotten beloved son. In scripture is also very clearly told that Jesus is the Way to God, which indicate he is not the way to himself but to his heavenly Father. It is also told Jesus shall hand over the Kingdom to His heavenly Father. In case Jesus is God he can not sit to God His right hand because he would sit on the same place as god being god and that what belongs to God is than already his and can not be hand over to himself because he owns it already. Jesus also was given authority and he himself says he can not do anything without God. When he would be god, he told the people lies, though we are also told that Jesus was without sin and lying is called a sin. In the same way we are told that God never tells lies. So when God declared Jesus to be His son and not saying it was Him God would not only have mislead the people but would also have told lies.

    All the Biblical sayings should give you (or should I say “thou”) come to see that the remarks I made, make much more sense than your philosophy (though you yourself say to be against philosophy and that I may not philosophy).

    Please, always compare one saying with an other in the Holy scriptures and get to see the whole picture.

    You are totally mistaken to think “God of the Bible never leads any astray”, for sure than you have not read your bible. There are many stories in the Scripture where God let people, even chosen ones, go the wrong way or left them wandering around, some even for many many years, some even not giving the chance to see the promised land. Please come to read the Old as well as the New Testament and come to see what God has done with people to teach them a lesson and to help them to find the right way.

    Reply
    • December 30, 2016 at 11:37 pm
      hoojewale

      “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men” (John 1:1-4). If the Word was with God and the Word was God, in the beginning (before creationism) are there not TWO called God when none is with them? If all things were made by Him does not tell anyone that none made Him Who made all? In Him was life, being the life Giver. Who gives life if not Jehovah?

      Psalm 24:1 “A Psalm of David. The earth [is] the LORD’S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein”. The LORD is Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw’) ‘1. (the) self-Existent or Eternal 2. Jehovah, Jewish national name of God’. The last four verses read: “7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah’. Every ‘LORD’ is the same as that of the first verse. Does God, the Father, Who’s always on the throne ever embarked on any journey, as far as the scripture is concerned? If He doesn’t then Who is the gates being lifted for – not forgetting in a hurry that He is called Jehovah? tell me who can be ‘King of glory’ if not Jehovah?

      “8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.3 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail” (Hebrews 1:8-12). God unequivocally called Him God! More than One, divinely, God that is.

      Who spoke to John in Revelation 1:8, saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. Can a created being be Alpha and Omega? I think not. Better not too, for the sake of the truth that sets free. He called Himself ‘the Almighty’ don’t forget to note the definite article. He did not say “an almighty”, which will be just one of the mighty ones. ‘Almighty’, in the Greek is: pantokrator (pan-tok-rat’-ore): ‘the all-ruling, i.e. God (as absolute and universal sovereign)’. Pantokrator says, “target any distance in your wildest imagination and Pantokrator surpasses it by far”. Not even an intercontinental ballistic missile can equal it in strength! Only God is Almighty (with a capital ‘A’).

      Micah 5:2 “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting”. is this Jesus, the Christ? How come His constant earthly approach had been from eternity past? Who else but God can be said to have been in existence from eternity past, when none had been brought into creation? Selah. Check the scriptures. There abound copious verses to prove the fact that He is very God of very God. I do not know where you worship not to be able to see these truthful facts concerning JESUS. Is He not the LORD of lords? Why will He receive worship in the heavenly assizes (where seated the One on the throne), in the Book of Revelation?! Rev. 5:8 “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints”. God will not share His glory. Right? Selah.

      Reply
      • January 16, 2017 at 2:19 pm
        Immanuel Verbondskind

        Here you mention yourself the talmidin his reference to the Garden of Eden how God provided a solution against the curse of sin.

      • January 16, 2017 at 9:58 pm
        hoojewale

        Please, do let me understand what you’re saying here.

      • January 17, 2017 at 7:37 am
        Immanuel Verbondskind

        You quote ““In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ” where the apostle John is talking about the promise God made, after the fall of man (his capital sin) in the Garden of Eden. The Word = Speaking of God, became in the flesh by the birth of the Messiah, the sent one from God who was to restore the relationship between God and man and now sits in heaven to mediate between God and man and to be a high priest before God. He is made higher than angels (he was lower before=could not be the God because the Elohim is, was and always shall be the Most Highest)

        The Word Spoken by God, His Spirit (=Power) having placed Jesus in the womb of the virgin, made that by the man Jeshua from the tribe of king David, a king came into the world who was able to conquer sin.

      • January 18, 2017 at 9:09 pm
        hoojewale

        He wasn’t made lower because He wasn’t God. Read the ‘out of the Bible’; don’t read ‘into it’. Heb 2:9 “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.” He was made lower than the angels because if that had been the case no one could approach Him for the arrest that enabled Him to solve the sin question. John saw Him in the Book of Revelation account and he said in Rev 1:17, “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last”. I ask again who did Moses see in the Book of Exodus 34:5-9, which resulted in the 29th verse occurrence? By the way who or what is the Holy Spirit? Who was Christ before He became a man born of Mary?

  • December 30, 2016 at 7:42 am
    Immanuel Verbondskind

    You also say “The Bible (and only the Bible) treats the sin question and it is one of the reasons we have the Trinity. ” Again you are wrong, because first of all, there are many books talking about sin, and secondly a trinity or tri-une god has nothing to do with it, but man who opposed the Power of the One Divine Creator has everything to do with having the knowledge of good and evil (read the Bereshith).

    Reply
    • December 30, 2016 at 11:54 pm
      hoojewale

      No I’m not wrong at all. The ‘treat’ here is the treatment of sin by the Bible and it’s the spiritual one. No book, religion, or societal assemblage is capable of dealing with the sin question and to resolve it eternally. If you know of any please, do enlighten me. Only Jesus can treat you, and to heal you absolutely of your sinful nature. None else. If you do know of another please shed the illuminating light. May the Lord Jesus take care of you, Immanuel. Amen!

      Reply
      • January 16, 2017 at 2:17 pm
        Immanuel Verbondskind

        I did not say those books could ‘deal with sin’ I mentioned many books talked about sin. I also dare to say that several books also try to show how we can deal with sin. Many books clearly show the way to deal with sin is given in the Holy Scriptures. In the Bereshit you find already the answer to sin. From the moment Adam and Eve went against the wishes of their Creator the Elohim took care that there would be a solution for mankind. It is that Word of God, spoken in the Garden of Eden, about which the talmidin Yochanan uses to refer to in his opening to his gospel (John 1:1)

        The Messiah is the one who deals with the sin of man, we are told in the Scriptures. But when a person is not willing to believe in Jesus and not willing to accept Jesus as the Way to God and is not willing to do something himself about how to handle his own weaknesses and sin, Jesus shall not be able to help him or her who rejects God, the heavenly Father of Jesus.

        Therefore those who worship trinities, three-headed or more headed gods should worry, because Scriptures are very clear that man should only worship One God and not make any graven images of that God.

        Man himself or herself has much more to deal with sin than they think, because each individual is personally responsible for him or herself.

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H.O Ojewale